True Brits: Herbert and Brundle Face to Face

The following extracts were taken from an article in the first issue (May 1997) of the new UK magazine, Grand Prix Action. The Editor was asked for permission to use the article and has not refused, so the extracts have been reproduced below. If, for any reason, the Editor or the publishers would prefer this article not to be used on the Johnny Herbert website, this page will be removed immediately.

In every issue of Grand Prix Action, F1 insiders and personalities will go face-to-face. In the first of these revealing exchanges, Mark Fogarty brought together F1 centurion Johnny Herbert and driver-turned-pundit Martin Brundle, for some lively backchat and banter.

Johnny: So, how is it on the other side of the camera?

Martin: Well, I'm not sure I could ever become a driver again because I couldn't take the flak from the commentators, now that I know what they give out! But it's actually really enjoyable. And luckily for me I'm involved in other things as well. If I were just doing the TV, I'd be bored because it's not a replacement for driving a Grand Prix car. But I've managed to put together four things - the TV, working with Arrows and testing the car.

Johnny: Oh, you're doing that?

Martin: Yes, the Le Mans programme for TWR and being a director of the British Racing Drivers Club at Silverstone - which nearly replace the thrill of driving a Formula One car, but not quite. So I'm really jealous of you. I haven't heard myself on TV yet, but I'm getting a lot of kudos out of it ; people seem to be enjoying it, and it’s adding to their pleasure of watching F1, then I’m getting something out of it.

Johnny: That’s what’s surprised me.

Martin: What? You’re surprised that I can string more than three words together? Don’t judge everyone by your own standards. But I must say, you’re doing really well this season.

Johnny: You’re reading that!

Martin: You mean, how-come-you’re-so-com-pet-it-ive? No, you’re driving well this season. Seriously! Have you done something consciously or is it just that the car’s working so well or what?

Johnny: The car’s working well, but as you’re aware, if you’re in a team that doesn’t give you the feeling that you’re wanted and you don’t feel right, you don’t drive as well.

Martin: Yes, but you were in this team last year.

Johnny: This year’s better because I’m the main man, the mechanics are very happy that I’ve stayed and they make me want to do well, and they think I can. Mentally it makes a big difference.

Martin: I can relate to that.

Johnny: And I feel good because I feel more relaxed and I do feel more confident.

Martin: Honestly, you’re driving real nice. And I can relate to that because I know when I led the Jaguar sports team, and this year leading the Nissan team, you feel a foot taller.

Johnny: Exactly.

Martin: You stand up to it and you feel important, you feel that everybody’s listening to you, they want to know what you’re going to say. It all just starts falling into place. I mean, you went brilliantly in Melbourne and I was a bit concerned it might be a bit of a flash in the pan because the team was so late and somehow or other it just suited the track or something. But you’ve been strong every weekend, really, haven’t you?

Johnny: It hasn’t been too bad really, it’s just qualifying that hasn’t quite strung itself together as yet. We’re normally okay when we have the fuel on, but to be honest there seems to be a few teams which have had a similar sort of problem.

Martin: I mean, I felt sorry for you in Melbourne because you were a victim of your own good start, really. You had to go for it around the outside, but unfortunately it gave you a 50/50 chance of getting run into.

Johnny: I had to do it.

Martin: If you’re catapulting forward, you have to go for it really.

Johnny: I wouldn’t do anything different if I had to do it all over again. I probably wouldn’t get as good a start again, though! That’s the bad thing.

Martin: I know. You get a brilliant start and then pay a high price for it. Why is the car so much better this year?

Johnny: Well, obviously the engine is one thing that’s made a big, big difference to the performance, because it has the power and it’s a balanced package. And they’ve improved the car aerodynamically. I think we’ve probably improved - or I hope we have anyway - slightly more than the others. The thing is now, as you know, the times are just so damn close that a little difference makes a big difference to your position on the grid. That’s the biggest thing, getting it right.

Martin: Does it frustrate you or frighten you, like it used to me, that you’re zero-to-hero or hero-to-zero on whether they get the aerodynamics right or the installation of the engine or the weight distribution or the geometry of the suspension? I know you can have an input as a driver, but you’re ever so dependent on how good a job they do over the winter.

Johnny: A lot of it is, but I think everybody’s in the same boat, to be honest. Even the teams that are at the front can suddenly be fifth row or something, year to year. I mean, Williams haven’t got that fault, but McLaren and Ferrari have been very up and down over the past few years. McLaren started better this year in testing, but it didn’t happen. Benetton did the same and that didn’t happen. But a lot of it, yes, is down to the guys back at the factory who put the cars together, refine the aerodynamics and work it all out. So, yes, there is a lot of reliance on them getting it right, and I suppose there’s a certain amount of reliance on your telling them. But it still comes down to a little bit of luck sometimes, because I’m sure engineers don’t know exactly why a thing is good. Because if they knew, they’d have done it two years ago. So things don’t change that easily.

Martin: There’s confidence for you! [Moving on], you went well at Monaco last year, and of course it’s your ‘home’ Grand Prix, so how’s it looking for this year?

Johnny: Well, I’m looking forward to my ‘home’ Grand Prix. It should be okay there because they’ve done a lot of work on the track.

Martin: You’ll be able to hit the wall going even faster now!

Johnny: So it looks as if the section from the swimming pool to Rascasse could be a lot better. And I think the car is very driver-friendly, which is exactly what you want at Monaco. You want a friendly car. You don’t want a car that has all the downforce and grip in the world, but doesn’t handle, because you’re normally going to clip a barrier somewhere along the line. From the user-friendliness point of view, I think it’ll be quite good. The engine is very driveable and the car should be very good there.

Martin: Well, I think that you’ll do well there. Do you go and practise going round it on your moped or something?

Johnny: I normally go around it just briefly when I’m -

Martin: ...On your way to the newsagents!

Johnny: ...Taking the girls to school. But I did go all the way around recently when my father-in-law came over to Monaco and I took him around it. But it’s just so different when you go around in a road car or even on a bike.

Martin: And it looks so different with all those 2CV’s parked everywhere, doesn’t it?

Johnny: Yes, and you can’t go around Casino anyway. But it’s like any track : when you’ve been there once, you know the circuit.

Martin: So how much better is the Ferrari engine than the Ford?

Johnny: Ferrari has done a very, very good job on the engine. The driveability could be improved, but it’s still very nice. The difference between Ford and Ferrari, I feel, is that Ferrari gets the job done much quicker, which I think is the same situation with Renault, Peugeot and even maybe Yamaha now. They’re dedicated to F1 only. Cosworth is now doing a whole lot of other stuff and in this day and age you need it to be 100 per cent F1. I mean, I know they’re still having reliability problems this year and I don’t think they should be.

Martin: They should have that sorted by now, shouldn’t they?

Johnny: They should’ve had that sorted a year ago. So that’s the biggest difference. And power-wise, there’s also a huge difference. When you took the fuel out last year, it used to make a difference, but nothing really - now there’s a massive difference. The engine is much more responsive to little changes and it’s easier to handle the car with more power, so that helps, too.

Martin: Your career is back on the upward slope now, can it take you back into one of the top teams or do you think those days are over?

Johnny: I don’t think they’re over yet: it can change. Two years ago I was finished and now people are saying I’m doing a good job. Drivers can go to the big teams like Heinz-Harald and it doesn’t work out, and then perhaps they say. ‘Johnny has done a good job for Sauber this year’, and things progress. But I’m happy here and have another year here anyway and things are getting better. But as you get older, like us boys...

Martin: Speak for yourself! So what do you make of your ex-team-mate Harry-Heinz’s failure to score points in the first three races?

Johnny: I think some of it isn’t down to him. I don’t think you can blame him for the first race.

Martin: It’s an engineer’s job to get the car to the end of a race, not the driver’s.

Johnny: Exactly, so that wasn’t his problem. Brazil? I don’t know as he was so bad in the race - just way, way, way off the pace.

Martin: He supposedly had a shock absorber problem, but that sounds like one of those kinds of things which leaks out three days after a race. We’ve all used excuses like that - well, speaking for myself!

Johnny: In Argentina his car stopped, so again it wasn’t his fault. But it’s tough for him as he’s come from Sauber where it was his team and they had the arm around him and mothered him, and he’s gone to Williams, where you’ve got to be you own man and be strong to survive there. He’s got his girlfriend, but not much more support than that.

Martin: In the end, it’s got to come from deep within him, hasn’t it?

Johnny: Exactly. But I think after a few more races and he gets a result, then it might change.

Martin: I think he’s got a chance to start over now in Europe and set a new baseline. I know from my year at Benetton in 1992 I was branded a complete tosser by race four, but the fact is that in two of those four races, the car failed. You can turn it around and he’s got another chance now.

Johnny: Who do you think is going to win the championship?

Martin: Villeneuve’s in there; he’s in the middle of the running away with it already. He should have won the first three races, really. But I really do believe the other teams are homing in on Williams. He wants to be careful not to screw Harry-Heinz in the head too much as he may need him a bit, but I think he’ll win it. He’s good and the team knows how to win races and championships. I still see Schumacher there or thereabouts - Michael, that is - and Gerhard is my outside bet. But I wouldn’t underestimate Ralf nor that Jordan. I think it’s potentially the quickest thing on the race track. Christ, has it got some stick and some grunt!

Johnny: I would say the same. Jacques has wins already, but he has to stay consistent and out of trouble. He has the car, he has the team, but he’ll also have threats from other teams coming up. Michael can always win some races and maybe Gerhard some others. At the moment, I would expect Gerhard to finish second and I guess Michael third. I don’t see the McLarens doing that well and Alesi seems to have gone somewhere else.

Martin: Yes, he’s lost his head a bit. Final question : how does it feel to be a Grand Prix centurion?

Johnny: Well, it’s nice that I’ve got this far and I’m still alive. For me it’s a personal achievement to come back from the F3000 accident in 1988. I’ve enjoyed a lot of the years and I’ve had a lot of fun, but I still have a lot of goals. Hopefully, I can achieve those in the next 100 races!

Extracts reproduced from Grand Prix Action ©. All rights reserved.
Thanks to Paul Harvey for transcribing this article for use on the website
This page prepared 28th June 1997.